Podcast transcript:
Candace Dellacona: Welcome to the
Sandwich Generation Survival Guide.
I am your host, Candace Dellacona,
and I am so excited to announce our
guests today, Kass and Mike Lazerow.
Welcome, guys.
Kass Lazerow: Thanks for having us.
Mike Lazerow: Thanks for having us.
Candace Dellacona: We're here to
talk today about your book that
is available for pre order called
Shoveling Shit, A Love Story.
But let's first talk, Kass and Mike, about
who you are and what your origin story is.
Kass Lazerow: All right.
Well, I am half of the Lazerow duo, Kass,
and origin story is I've always been
entrepreneurial since a very young age.
I think the last person that I had lunch
with outside of work was an elementary
school friend who told me, she goes,
remember when you used to sell barrettes
at school and you made so much money
and I hadn't even thought of that, so
entrepreneurial from the beginning.
And a competitor, I would say at
heart, having played a lot of sports
my whole life, and then a person
who really likes to give back.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
And Mike?
Mike Lazerow: Yeah Kass and I grew
up probably 10 miles from each other.
Don't want to tell the dirty little
secret, she's a little older than I am.
She was friends with my older brother.
It's just a chronological fact.
It's not an opinion.
We have nothing to do with it.
And we reconnected at a
wedding of a mutual friend.
And just hit it off over
really early internet stuff.
So I was running a business
at the time in web 1.
0.
She was very entrepreneurial,
helping, the largest law firms in
the world build their first websites.
And so we connected over
ideas and innovation and,
the future of the internet.
And Kass had come from an
entrepreneurial family that no one
really worked for other people.
My dad was a builder and owned
a home inspection business.
My stepfather, who I actually grew up with
parents got divorced at six years old.
And then I grew up with my mom
and stepfather living with them.
At least he had a money management firm.
And my grandfather built
apartments, low income housing
in Baltimore his whole life.
And so I just had, a bunch of role
models who this is what they did.
They did their own thing,
which, I think, pushed me into
that path of entrepreneurship.
Candace Dellacona: For our
listeners, Mike and Kass were the
founders of BuddyMedia and Golf.
com.
So, you have some pretty significant
successes under your belt, but one of
the things I loved so much about your
book, Shoveling Shit, A Love Story, was
you really got into the nitty gritty
of being a founder and the process
in which founders find themselves.
The good and the bad.
So why don't you tell us a little bit
about what brought you to write a book
like this and why you saw the need?
Kass Lazerow: So for the last, I would
say 12 or 13 years since selling Buddy
Media, we have been investors, and
we've been doing that out of our own
pocket, off our own balance sheet, and
then we started in 2019 a venture firm.
And so we've been investors,
and we love entrepreneurs.
And we also spend a lot of our time giving
back to the entrepreneurial community
by taking calls, helping out, we get
lots of can you talk to this person?
Can you help them?
What do you think about this idea?
And I'd always wanted to somehow
get the message out in a more
exponential way, if you will.
And we had thought about doing a podcast.
And then I said, Mike, I
have all these lessons.
I've kept them all.
Let's write a book.
Mike was a little hesitant and I scaffold
it all out and he's like, holy crap, you
actually did keep all of these, lessons.
And then it took three
months and we did it.
Takes a year to publish it.
I don't know why that's the case,
but our goal is to get it out
to as many entrepreneurs as we
can, just so that we can help.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I love that.
And one of the big themes and one
of the things I loved about the
book, and maybe Mike, you can talk
about this is the two voices, right?
Where, the reader goes through Kass's
perspective and Mike's perspective.
And I think that's a really
interesting perspective.
Mike Lazerow: Yeah.
One of the hardest parts about writing
this book is we did it together.
And although we've worked together
for over 25 years, we've been
married for 25 years, but started a
company while we were just dating,
we really do different things.
She's more of the operator.
I'm more of the kind of salesperson,
visionary, capital markets, fundraising
biz dev stuff that doesn't matter as much
as like, how do you run these companies?
And so when we wrote the
book, we were in it together.
It was a creative exercise.
That we had to create and agree on stuff.
So, a little friction at the beginning,
we did get into the flow, but the hardest
thing to figure out was the voice, because
although many people know us together,
including our investors and employees and,
everyone in our life, we are two different
people, obviously, and we have our own
perspective and there's certain stories,
which I was a part of, which she wasn't.
So you can't write it in we, right?
Like we didn't do this.
If it was just me at our office
in Singapore, after we'd opened
it, telling a story or at South by
Southwest, trying to sell our products.
And so we landed on just being
really clear with the reader.
There are three voices.
There's we, there's me,
and there is she, Kass.
So Kass had her, me and the, he
and the, we, and so we just kept it
conversational and tried to do it as
if we were sitting around talking to
someone and not overcomplicate it.
And I think we landed at a spot
where, although at the beginning
you may have to focus a little on
who is this talking, it very quickly
becomes something that is natural.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I totally agree.
The theme of partnership
is throughout the book.
In fact, I think you even have a
chapter called Picking Your Partner.
Maybe talk to us about why picking
your partner is so important
and best way to go about that.
Kass Lazerow: Picking a partner
is like picking a spouse.
That's what we basically
say is the analogy.
You are going to wake up every
morning and text this person, right?
When you're running a company, you're
going to go to bed texting them.
And it's going to be a
very close relationship.
So you've got to make sure that you
have picked someone who has the same
mission, values, work ethic, and you
know the different responsibilities
each of you is going to take,
especially for co founders and you
have more than one other co founder.
And it's a big deal.
And what we have found is the
co founder relationships that
work have different expertise.
So you're not overlapping in skill sets.
And when we have seen companies
where the two founders are both
doing product or both engineers
it just doesn't work as well.
There's a lot of micromanaging,
there's a lot of paralysis by
analysis, and it just doesn't work.
It's very, very important that
you pick the right partner,
Mike, what would you say?
Mike Lazerow: I agree a hundred percent.
We as investors, we didn't really think
that much about this as entrepreneurs
because it never crossed our mind
really to start other businesses with
someone else until I did and kind of
failed miserably with one attempt.
But as investors, we see the dynamic of
co founders getting in their own way.
And so most of the time,
it's not competition.
It's not the market.
It's not inability to find talent.
It's internal struggle between founders,
not being able to make decisions, not
being on the same page, that's what
gets in the way, usually, especially
early on for most startup companies.
We didn't feel like we could write this
book without really outlining what we
think some of the best strategies are for
agreeing to move forward with someone.
What are the conversations
you need to have?
How should the skill set be
different, so what is your lane?
What is her lane or his lane and we
wrote this, Shoveling Shit, A Love
Story is not just our love story.
It's a love story between
entrepreneurs and the hard work
and grit and the shoveling of shit
that goes into these businesses.
It's the misery of starting a
business and working for yourself
and the beauty that's in that.
And it's this idea that it's
the hardest thing you can do and
it's the best thing you can do.
So it's both miserable and awesome.
And holding those two ideas is
important if you're an entrepreneur
because the alternative is you
could be unemployed or working for.
Someone who's just telling you what to do.
And so it's in this struggles
where you find the purpose in
your life as an entrepreneur, you
could find it many other ways.
I'm not saying it's the only way,
but from a work perspective, it's a
really good way to find your purpose,
to be fired up every day, even though
you know, you're going to show up.
To work and just have
to shovel shit all day.
I was just talking this morning
to a former buddy, we call, buddy
media employee, who went on to
start an incredible brand in the
liquor space, bourbon company.
And he read the book and it was just
like, it was my book because I always say
I show up and I'm just shoveling shit.
Right?
And so if you're just showing up
to work and you're just mailing it
in, you may not recognize it, but
you're running your business, right?
Like we've worked together and
you are running a business.
You have clients, have to deliver.
Like it's not just these
entrepreneurs who start, but it's, 5.
5 million people who started businesses
last year, they look more like,
restaurants, service companies,
hair salons, wellness centers.
I think what we did in tech
was a very specific thing.
We tried not to write a book
that was for the tech community.
It's really for all entrepreneurs
and we think we've accomplished that.
Candace Dellacona: You have, and you
said a lot there, Mike, but what I
was thinking about when I was reading
the book is that it really is a
blueprint for, partnerships overall.
It's almost agnostic in the sense that to
Kass's point picking a partner is similar
to a marriage, and, as Sandwich Generation
members, which I think I can safely say
the three of us are, and surviving, I
think, being in it and seeing the beauty
and shoveling the shit at the same time,
they will exist, side by side, right?
And trying to find those moments
that are really great and pulling
through when it's not so great.
Mike Lazerow: That's a hundred percent.
Candace Dellacona: When it comes to,
you're talking about one of your four
part approaches, Kass pointed out
that, she kept all of the lessons over
the last couple of decades as a founder
and helping other founders, the vision,
communication, mindset, and workload
approach and how universal that can
be across the board, whether you're a
founder or you're a spouse in a marriage.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Kass Lazerow: Mike, you want to take it?
Mike Lazerow: No, you take it first.
Cause I think this is an
area that you really thrive.
Kass Lazerow: You have to have
this, I want to make sure I'm
answering the question right.
So there's like a growth mindset that
you have to have as an entrepreneur
and a beginner mindset, right?
And I think it doesn't matter if you're
approaching a business, what you're
doing it as a daily task, or if it's
any kind of relationship, it's the idea
that you've got to focus and prioritize,
and you've got to understand that,
especially when you're an entrepreneur
and you're going from zero to one,
what do you need to do to survive?
And what is that kind of focus?
There should be nothing
else on your plate.
And in order to do that, you create
financials, you create a budget you
basically put what you think is going to
happen on the back of a napkin, right?
Whatever you come up with in the
first year of your financials, that's
never going to be what you end with.
But you are trying to prove that
and you're trying to come up with
success measurements, and you're going
to use that to gauge your success.
So, the idea of having the correct
operational mindset that as an
entrepreneur, there's nothing more that
you can do than focus for that first year.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah,
Mike Lazerow: Yeah.
What's interesting about
entrepreneurship is there's so much
talk about this hustle culture.
And I think what we're trying to say
is that yes, you have to work hard, but
hard work alone won't get you there.
It's not about just
whoever works harder wins.
It's hard work is table stakes.
And what we've tried to do is outline
very specifically all of the lessons we
wish that we had known when we started
out that is going to be game changers.
The book is one part of it, obviously.
When you buy it, you get a toolkit, the
entrepreneur toolkit, which is everything
we use to launch these businesses.
It's the Go-Gauge⢠to test if the
idea is viable, it's a budgeting
system to even if you're not a finance
person to put your ideas onto paper
and see if the budget makes sense.
Just back of a napkin.
It's strategic frameworks for
how to focus an organization.
I think when Kass said earlier that
she wants to get her ideas out in
kind of an exponential format, it's we
want to help entrepreneurs in a world
that a lot of the jobs that we had
access to growing up just don't exist.
Candace Dellacona: true.
Mike Lazerow: And I don't know if you
would recommend someone go to law school
to then try to become an associate
and then a junior partner, then a
partner, and then an equity partner.
Because a lot of those jobs
just don't exist, right?
And I'm not even talking about Harvey.AI
and what that's going
to do to that business.
I'm just talking about like the current
environment where there isn't the fat
that we used to have in the ad agency
business, the law firm business.
So everyone's an entrepreneur
when you start out.
So you got to sell yourself.
That's product number one, right?
And we think that there's some
strategies that will help you focus
and do that better, whether you want
to be a billionaire or you just want to
land somewhere you can do great work.
Candace Dellacona: You're right,
there's a methodology here.
And that's one of the things that
you pointed out in the book, that
it's certainly not going to lead
you to success 100 percent of the
time, but it sets the framework to
hopefully set you up for success.
So the concept of your Go-Gaugeâ¢, I
would love for you guys to talk more
about that and maybe from Kass's
perspective as the operational
person and documenting all of it.
And then maybe how you see it differently.
And what happens when you disagree
when a founder comes to you and they
say we would love for you to invest.
And you go through the Go-Gaugeâ¢, have
you ever been in a position where Kass
sees it one way and Mike sees it another?
Kass Lazerow: Let me answer
the back half of that question.
When we have a pitch or
a proposal coming to us.
Mike and I developed that Go-Gaugeâ¢
and that framework to answer all these
questions like what is the product,
how is it different than anything
out there, what's the audience size,
how are you going to get it to that
audience, all that kind of stuff.
If you go through that and we
can actually get answers to that.
That's the first part.
Not every founder actually
can answer those questions.
That's what we found.
When it comes to making the decision
and Mike's looked at over, all of the
financials and maybe it makes sense.
Let's say we get to that part and
now they've crossed two hurdles.
They'd answer the questions they had
done the financials and for the most
part, the financials make sense.
Then it's about the aspect
of people and leadership.
Has this founder or founders, do
they know what they don't know?
That's what I'm looking for.
So as the operator and the person that
really looks at people and scaling
teams, and can we get them to a place
where they understand how to focus?
I'm trying to find the humble co
founder or co founders that say, look.
I'm not going to know everything, but I'm
going to hire the right people around me.
So that's the answer to, the
second part, Mike, do you
want to answer the first part?
Mike Lazerow: Yeah specifically.
The Go-Gauge⢠and all of the tools
and strategies we put out there.
It's not about if you do
this, you will succeed.
It's this will help you
make fewer mistakes.
And the biggest issue you have as
an entrepreneur, both starting out
and growing the business is fear and
fear that's driven by the massive
amount of uncertainty that you have.
I compare it to, someone who's
just walking around a dark room,
trying to find the door, the
handle to get out into some light.
You bang your head, you trip
over stuff, you're just lost.
But you know on the other side of
this door is some light and you
could find a bathroom and something
to eat and you could go on and live.
And so we're trying to expose
some strategies and tools
that help us get there.
And so we talked about co founders,
one of the other biggest mistakes
we see is greenlighting ideas that
either shouldn't be greenlit or don't
support the life that you want to live.
And so specifically with the
Go-Gaugeâ¢, it's a very simple,
we didn't go to business school.
So there's a very simple kind of outline
or checklist, if you want that basically
will help you make that decision.
It all starts with what is the product?
Why is it better than existing options?
Cause you want something that's better.
Who's the customer.
And when I say, who's the
customer, who's going to buy it
and how many of them are there?
So it's not just Oh, the golf
industry is 80 billion dollars.
It's okay, I don't know in a golf
course, I got to take out that revenue.
I don't own this.
The people who you're
targeting, what's a real size.
And then what a lot of entrepreneurs
don't really focus on is how will
customers find out about your product,
which is the fourth sales and marketing.
And then the delivery channel, which
is really important these days.
How will, how you get it to customers,
retail, e commerce, what's the model
and that all kind of culminates in,
a simple question, like, does the
financial model pass the smell test?
And so if you can focus up front
on answering these questions,
what happens is you'll still
probably fail and have to pivot,
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Mike Lazerow: but if you don't focus
on them, there's a good chance that
you're definitely going to fail,
Candace Dellacona: It makes sense.
How do you deal with failure?
How do you pivot?
And what are your examples of, maybe
realizing that you're through the process
and it's just not working and, from your
perspective, Kass is there a red flag
where you realize, look, it's time to get
out and it's not exactly what we thought?
Kass Lazerow: I think, when it
comes to business models, like
Mike said, whatever you start with,
isn't going to be what you end with.
So I think entrepreneurs have to go
into their companies realizing, okay,
the first year is about survival.
If I can get from zero to one and
prove that the success metrics that I
wrote down in this back of the napkin
financials then I can move forward
and you're going to have to pivot.
I can't even name a company
who started off as the same
thing that they ended up with.
If you think of any company.
So the gut has to be there, right?
You have to listen to your gut.
And as Mike often says.
It's this nagging thing that you start
to hear and then you start to try to
convince yourself that it's still working.
And what I see from my vantage
point is when you're in a company
or we have investments and they're
not pivoting, it's ego, right?
So ego has gotten in the way and the ego
has gotten in the way because of fear
and the fear and the uncertainty of, Oh
my gosh, I sold investors on this idea.
Or my spouse knows this is what
I've been telling every, this is my
identity around this idea and you have
to admit that it was wrong, right?
That there are no customers or
there's too much competition and
my product isn't differentiated.
So when you see and start to feel
something, you're usually right.
There's, as Mike always says
to me, when's the last time
you said, Oh, my gut was wrong.
It's usually the opposite,
Candace Dellacona: What I'll also say
too is that when you're balancing these
two concepts where you're like all in.
And so you have to be all in, but then you
also have to have the necessary distance
to be able to do just what you said.
Kass Lazerow: That's why you write
down the financials, even if they're
simple, because those become the
success measurements and a lot of
entrepreneurs decide, okay, I'll
answer all of Mike's questions.
And then we've got the financials
and then they try to tell us,
oh no, everything's going great.
And we say, well, have you
gone back to the financials?
Because those are your measurements.
That's what you basically
told us you were going to do.
And a lot of them don't go back and say,
Oh my gosh, I don't have five customers or
I don't have my first customer or I didn't
hire X, Y, and Z people on the team.
So that's really, that's like the
formula for success in the first year.
Candace Dellacona: Totally makes sense.
And then what about, you're imparting
all these lessons, to the founders.
And then let's go back and delve into
the family life piece and what work
life balance looks like when you're a
founder and a parent, you guys have kids.
And how did that look for you and maybe
what would you do differently when
it comes to that, being parents and
being all in and trying to be present.
Kass Lazerow: I think Mike and I, at
least this last company, Buddy Media we
did a really good job at communicating
that we were going to be all in
and, we're coming from one family.
So we had all of our eggs in one basket.
So there was no parachute, there
was nobody else providing an income.
But we acknowledged that we were going
to sacrifice the kids when they were
little, meaning we were not going to be
around as much as we should have been.
At least that's, you can hear
my guilt there, should have been.
And that if we could get back to them
when they were older, you know, the
drill, Candace, big kids, big problems,
younger kids, smaller problems.
So that was definitely it.
But there is no balance.
I know, you know, this,
there is zero balance.
You can only do one thing well at a time.
And as an entrepreneur,
you have to be all in.
So there's massive sacrifices.
I didn't know anyone at the
school that my kids went to.
I never made friends so that you went on
little trips or spent the, President's
Day weekend going skiing with them.
We were barely keeping,
our head above water.
So, the concept Is in what I
would have done differently is I
would have been kinder to myself.
I would have said, Oh my gosh,
they are going to be okay.
It takes a village.
There are people around them.
We had wonderful babysitters,
absolutely wonderful babysitters.
One of whom is Jessica.
And she just was wonderful.
And she would just love them so much
and they will be okay as a result.
Candace Dellacona: And
what about you, Mike?
How do you see it in terms of
being a dad and, the all in?
Because Kass and I share that feeling
of the mom guilt, which I think,
is maybe not so fair to the dads.
But, I'm interested to see what
your perspective is on that.
Mike Lazerow: The mom guilt is real
and it's much different than dads.
It's always been much easier
for me to just disappear.
I like a certain band, I'll go do
a four night stand, I was just in
Mexico seeing them, and it's easy for
me to turn off my head and get away.
It's harder in general for Kass and for a
lot of our friends who are moms and it's
probably a good thing, just evolutionary.
So we're in Africa over the holidays
and some of the most successful
species are women led, right?
Which I think we are.
So you look at elephants, you look
at some of the, let's just say the
animals who aren't getting eaten every
day in the jungle and on the planes,
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Mike Lazerow: like they're
very strong matriarchies.
And I think part of that is you need
someone to worry about the health of
the family, in that case, survival.
I wouldn't want to be an Impala.
Everyone seems to eat impalas.
Well, we're just going to have a lot of
babies and then whatever happens, happens.
Where there's nurturing of
elephants by the mothers.
For me, I didn't think about
it as much at the time I was
also on the road a lot more.
So I did sales and business development
Kass a lot of the marketing.
And there's nothing harder than being at
home with the kids when they're young.
We had very young kids.
We had kids all around
every company we launched.
And so it was like, we'd go to work and
then we would take care of the family.
That was life for a long time.
Which is why we're so excited
to be empty nesters in the fall.
We love our kids, but come
on, 23 years later, like we
Candace Dellacona: right?
It's
Mike Lazerow: got shit we gotta do.
And so I'm just being honest.
I didn't think about it as much.
And, we were fully in it
together with a shared life,
even though Kass bore a lot more.
For example I didn't know when
the dentist, appointments were.
Doctors appointments.
So Kass is managing hundreds of employees,
keeping everything straight, quarterly
meetings, board meetings and she has
these three dependents, who act like board
members, who have to be driven everywhere,
and you gotta keep the schedule.
Kass Lazerow: Little CEOs, I
Mike Lazerow: don't really
know how Kass did it,
Candace Dellacona: still had
to sign the permission slips
Kass Lazerow: Funny you say that, Candace.
So the other day I had an entrepreneur
mom say to me I just, I'm overwhelmed
on this and I'm trying to help
her understand that, she isn't
perfect with what she does at home.
And.
Everything's going to be okay.
And she starts talking
about permission slips.
The school won't stop
sending multiple emails.
She has multiple kids at the same school.
She's getting four sets of emails.
It's like crazy town.
And I thought to myself, Oh my gosh, I
don't remember ever signing anything.
I literally have no memory
of signing anything.
I remember when we got to 2012 and
our last two kids got into a different
school and I said, okay, Mike,
this is first day is lower school.
We got to get them to school.
He's like, okay, great.
And we sat in assembly and the lower
school was like, okay, now find
your teacher with the flag that
she's holding up or he's holding
up and then drop your kids off.
And I looked at Mike and Mike
looks at me, he goes, do you know?
And I'm like, I don't know.
He's did you read the email?
I'm like, I didn't read the email.
So we were the only parents going
around saying, Lazerows here.
Lazerows here.
Yeah.
It's hard.
The mental load, especially on
mompreneurs, as I call them, is massive,
because 99 percent of the time we
are the default parent and that means
that we're carrying the mental load.
And then when you're at a company
and you're trying to be a founder,
it's two or three times more work.
Candace Dellacona: for sure.
Not to take anything away from you,
Mike, but, I obviously agree with you,
Kass, and I think I'm there with you.
I also think, though, that having
a good partner and recognizing what
each of you are good at and forgiving
each other where, you have, as a co
founder with Mike, you had an inside,
bird's eye view of what he was doing.
Kass Lazerow: Yes.
Candace Dellacona: were involved.
Yeah, for
Kass Lazerow: really helped.
Yes.
Because I think that's what Mike
refers to as our shared life.
There was no resentment.
It wasn't like I would do it much
harder and it was harder when Mike
had his earn out at Salesforce
and I came back and I was with the
kids for, many years not working.
And that was harder because I
didn't know what was going on.
And I felt resentment that I was
doing everything, but being co
founders together again goes back
to picking the right partner.
I could see that he wasn't, just working
and going on boondoggles and stuff.
We were in this.
I mean, he did go to Phish boondoggles.
Let me just say that
he's always done that.
Candace Dellacona: Well, the last thing,
I was thinking of, when I was reading
your book and I mentioned this briefly
to you, Kass, is that, you brought up
your dad and the concept of modeling.
When it comes to being a founder
and advising other founders
and even with parenting.
So your kids saw you working so
hard, both of you going all in,
committing, really being just
devoted to the idea and the success.
How do you think modeling for your
kids and other founders is the key?
So when other founders pick up this
book, really, that's what you've done.
Kass Lazerow: So I think it's everything.
And I'll take the first part
of and say in a company, right.
Yeah.
That leaders have to shovel first, right?
We have a whole chapter on that.
There's nothing that I would ask
of someone else that I wouldn't
do, or I haven't done with them.
So it doesn't matter.
So that's the mindset that you have to
get, through your head as an entrepreneur,
that there's no hierarchy, you might put
a hierarchy and I strongly suggest you
don't inflate titles, but when you have
this company, you have to think about
every action, every word means something.
And are you trying to build a
positive culture, or are you
just trying to be standoffish and
being a king or a queen up here?
And then when it comes to your kids,
that's the same kind of mentality.
My mom modeled that she always
gave back to the communities,
and she volunteered a lot.
So it's always been something
that's very important to me.
And that's why we brought it to our
companies like Cycle for Survival.
We've done that.
This was our 17th year doing this.
And it became a really big culture glue.
I always think though, Candace
are my kids paying attention?
And I can say to those parents who
are like, Oh my God, I'm modeling all
this, but nothing seems to be working.
I can give this one kind of
glimmer of hope and example.
I've always worked out, I was a tennis
player in college and my dad was big into
lifting way before anybody lifted and he
really understood the idea of longevity
and strength and things like that.
So I always had, and then, it's hard
when you're a founder to find time to
work out, but I strongly suggest it.
So we work out five to six days
a week, and I always wondered,
would our kids see that and do it?
Because you can't just say, you
should work out, you should work
out, they're not going to do it.
All three of them work out.
Candace Dellacona: That's a great example.
What about you, Mike?
What do you see the modeling
Mike Lazerow: The only way, especially
at home, but I think it's the same
with work, when I tell my kids
to do something, or I tell them a
lesson, they want to do the opposite.
It does nothing like, Oh, be a
good person or care about others.
But when we model it, it sinks in because
they see it over a long period of time.
It's not empty words.
And so I love the workout analogy
that Kass just talked about, but
it goes into everything from, is
it a surprise that one of our kids
is launching a company right now?
The work we've done in philanthropy
has definitely impacted, we've
been long involved with Cycle
for Survival for 17, 18 years.
And we have a daughter now who.
Only thing she wants to do is
cancer research and worked in an MSK
leukemia lab last summer and will be
pursuing biology and neuroscience.
In college, starting in the fall.
Candace Dellacona: Amazing.
Mike Lazerow: Your actions really matter.
And we know that on the downside.
So kids are born good, but they can
get turned around by parents who
are abusive and just aren't there.
Don't put up the boundaries.
Just are absent.
It's also true on the upside.
So how we, our relationship to friends.
To family, like if we want
Kass Lazerow: treat people?
Mike Lazerow: we want them to
be close with us, we should
treat our parents respectfully.
And it's not always easy if
you've met my mom, who hopefully
is not listening, Nancy.
Kass Lazerow: Mammam means well.
Mike Lazerow: Listen, we have a
great relationship, and we hope
that is a model for the future.
I think in a company we can't,
we got to hundreds of employees.
We set the tone.
People weren't necessarily
seeing us every day.
But that's why we use Cycle for Survival,
quarterly meetings, giving back, making,
doing good and doing well, a key part
of our ethos and like any organization
you have symbols and rituals and stuff
that you care about values and you have
to be very proactive about it because
if you're not, you see what happened
with companies that don't focus on it,
Candace Dellacona: Absolutely.
Kass Lazerow: And you
have to be consistent.
I think the other part, Candace, either
personally or professionally, is that
everything you do has to be consistent.
Candace Dellacona: I think that, at
the end of the day, both of you have
done such a good job at that with
this book and the way that you live
your lives, the way that you've,
been founders of your own companies.
I'm so happy to have had the
opportunity to speak with you today
and obviously read the book and I
want to tell our listeners that it is
available for pre order, right guys?
Kass Lazerow: Yes, it is.
Candace Dellacona: You
have your own website.
We're going to put all of the information
in our comment section for the podcast,
including Cycle for Survival, which
I know is really important to both
of you in honor of your friends.
So thank you so much for spending
time with me today and giving me
the inside scoop on your success.
And I wish you the best with the book.
Kass Lazerow: Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And thank you too for
always having our back.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
My pleasure.
