Podcast transcript:
v2 Discovering Strength Through Caregiving with Lisa McCarty
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Welcome and Guest Intro
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Candace Dellacona: Welcome to the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide. I am your host, Candace Dellacona. On today's episode, we are joined by writer Lisa McCarty. Lisa has written for major publications, including the New York Times, New York Magazine, the Guardian, the Huffington Post, among many others. Lisa explores deeply personal topics with honesty and nuance from the trials and tribulations of parenthood to women's health.
But why Lisa is a guest on the podcast today is because one of the most powerful threads in Lisa's work is caregiving. In fact, in a widely read essay for The Cut, Lisa wrote all about being a caregiver for her mother when she was still very young. Which was an experience that shaped her life in ways that she'll share with us. I'm sure she's still unpacking today.
We are lucky to have Lisa today join us as a guest. She's currently working on a non-fiction narrative that reflects on that time and what it means to grow and having those responsibilities many of which most of us don't face until much later in life.
So thank you for the courtesy of allowing me that long introduction, Lisa, and welcome to the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide.
Lisa McCarty: Thanks for having me.
Candace Dellacona: So happy to have you.
Lisa McCarty: Thank you.
Why Write Personal Stories
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Candace Dellacona: So we'll just jump right into it. So you've written, as I mentioned, for all of these publications and most of what you write about is deeply personal. So when did you first realize that your personal experiences, particularly caregiving, were the stories that you wanted to share with the rest of the world?
Lisa McCarty: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's kind of a two part answer I'll say. I think I didn't start out wanting to write to share with the world, but I think I really had so many thoughts and feelings about my experience.
Sharing the Caregiving Essay
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Lisa McCarty: In particular, it started with grief. The very first essay that I wrote that was publicly posted and published was with Today Show, and it was actually about being my father's caregiver for many years. And then losing him the same week that I welcomed my second child.
And I wrote that essay. It started as a really long Google document and then decided, that I might wanna share it with other people in hopes that they would see themselves in the experience. And so I sent it out and it actually ended up being accepted and I was like in shock that somebody else wanted to read my story. And when it was published a few weeks later, after a few rounds of edits, working with a wonderful editor there, I was honestly that day that it came out, I thought, oh my gosh, I think I'm either gonna throw up or, you know, like, celebrate. I didn't know which to do because it felt really emotionally overwhelming.
But that was that kind of faded into the background because the immediate response that I got from so many people that I knew and also from strangers in comments and dms and emails and texts, and even other parents from school saying I had a really similar experience in caregiving for my parent. I had a really similar experience losing a parent while I also was welcoming my second child or first child. And it was just shocking to me that my writing not only could resonate with a stranger, but also could make me feel really connected to them. And so I think it really helped me to realize that what I once dreamed about in early college, which was to become a writing professor and to write professionally, and I had suppressed that because I thought it wasn't the right path for me based on things I heard from my parents and other people.
I realized that that was really what I wanted to do. And so I started writing for other outlets. I started pitching ideas and taking classes to, to try to figure out how to get my words out there and how to report on stories. And it was really fun. It went from something extremely emotional to something fun.
And then and then last year when I wrote the piece for The Cut, I decided that I was ready to share that story many years later.
Candace Dellacona: As someone who is also a reader of your work, and that's how we became connected, it's such a, for those of us out there in the world, when you share the deepest, most personal experiences in life, it shows an incredible vulnerability.
And I guess that's part of your job when you become a writer. But certainly I appreciate that because what you just said was absolutely true, that I think a lot of us are looking for other people that can name it whatever it is, the it, whether it's the grief simultaneous with giving birth. I had a similar experience as well. And then, your piece in The Cut.
Story Timing
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Candace Dellacona: What was the transition for you that made you decide that the piece in The Cut about your experience as your mom's caregiver was the right time?
Lisa McCarty: Yeah. As you've read the piece is about becoming my mother's caregiver when I was only 13 and it was not something that I thought for many years that I would talk about publicly in any way because it felt like a really private experience. And I also did not realize until I went to therapy in my late twenties, early thirties, that I was even a caregiver. I didn't even know that it actually had a name. And to your point, when we start naming our feelings and emotions and our experiences, we not only can understand ourselves better, but we also can connect with other people who get it. And I think because of the experience of writing in other areas about grief, about caregiving for my dad and how connected I felt in those times, I also hoped that same connection would happen by sharing that. And so it wasn't like I wanna air my dirty laundry to, to the world. It was, the intent really was to be vulnerable, as you said, to talk about something that was painful for me, but to turn it into something that I learned from.
And I think when it happened, I was only a teenager trying to navigate adolescence and to try to learn how to cope with things. But I didn't have the skills to manage that situation at that time. And I suppressed my emotions for so many years and I was living in survival mode for so many years that I think last year writing that piece felt like the right time because of where I am in my life and because I am secure in who I am and I felt ready to not only share the story and to find that positive connection, but also to bear the brunt of what you do as a public figure when you're writing about these things and you're sharing your story just like we're talking now.
And I was ready for that feedback. I wasn't looking for it, but I certainly was ready to manage it because I knew that I had the coping skills to do that as an adult in my forties who's gone through, many years of therapy. And I think the ending to that piece, not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it, but finding healing in myself and finding ways to forgive ourselves for things that we could not have known better at a young age. And to be accepting of ourselves and our experiences because I think once we get to that point, it's taken a long time, certainly for me to get there. But I think, as women, especially if we can be more accepting of ourselves and we can learn from experiences and share them with each other, I think as caregivers, as women, it offers an opportunity to learn from each other and to lift each other up and to not feel so alone.
Candace Dellacona: And that's really one of the reasons why you write what you write. And we have the podcast and I think others really find that these messages resonate the sense of community.
How Young Caregiving Shaped Lisa
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Candace Dellacona: But what I think is so unique about your experience as a caregiver is your age. And, we as fully baked humans have access to things like therapy and being able to talk to each other and looking for resources.
But you, having gone through this beginning at age 13, was so transformative in so many ways. So how do you think being a young caregiver shaped you now? Do you think that you were better able to throw your hands up and say, I can't do it all? How do you think that has really impacted you in your maybe role as a mom now or your place in your community, or in your own family structure now?
Lisa McCarty: Yeah. It's a great question. And it's a complicated answer. I would say as caregivers , in adulthood, it's a lot easier to speak up to say Hey, this isn't working for me. When we are, as you said, fully baked humans and we have the coping skills, but as as a child, essentially in that situation, my brain wasn't developed enough at that stage. And I, although my mom was very supportive and loving and wonderful prior to the accident, she came home a different person. She was incapacitated and unable to give me the emotional, psychological support that I needed at a very critical time in my life. And it's not any fault of her own, it was the accident, of course.
But I do think it was especially challenging to learn from that because as I said, I wasn't dealing with a lot of those emotions for many, many years. It impacted my identity, impacted my self-worth, my ability to build healthy, romantic relationships, healthy friendships. I felt very dependent on other people when I was outside of the caregiving situation because I just wanted to be loved and accepted.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Lisa McCarty: All that to say, I think it prepared me to care for my dad as an adult because I was able to build those skills. I think there were positive and negatives to it. When I was caregiving for my dad, I certainly had a significant amount of empathy for what he was going through. He dealt with, he lived in heart failure for many years, but he also was diagnosed in the last few years of his life with colon cancer.
So that was ultimately, unfortunately what took him. But he lived in many years in bad health and so I was his everything for that time. And I think I adapted those skills that I learned as a child with empathy, with patience. The things that I wish I could have done a lot better as a kid. I did the best I could with what I had. But then, on a negative, I would also say I, I struggled to set boundaries early on with him when I was caregiving for him, because I had become a people pleaser. I had become the person that just wanted everything to be okay.
And unfortunately, that is I think, very common for many caregivers, both in adulthood and in childhood. We often want to just care and love them and to give them what they need because we hope that we can just make everything better. But the reality is that we're also navigating managing a personality. It's not just caregiving, the actual task, it's caregiving, plus the relationship. Which makes it extremely challenging.
Candace Dellacona: Absolutely. It's interesting that you phrased it that way too because it's like you had the opportunity almost as a do-over as an adult to be the caregiver and perhaps in ways that you looking back couldn't have been when you were a child as a caregiver for your mom. So you were in many ways better prepared, but the die had been cast in some ways and because of that, boundaries were more difficult.
And we hear that all the time with caregivers, that boundaries is, it's probably the hardest topic for many of us to tackle and implement even as an adult.
Realizing She Was a Caregiver
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Candace Dellacona: But when you look back to your role as your mom's caregiver, when you were in it, did you realize that you were a caregiver at that age or was it something that you realized only looking back as an adult?
Lisa McCarty: No, I think I did not realize that I was a caregiver at the time. I think the way that I looked at it, from the moment that the accident happened, she left that morning, the independent single mother that was in charge of everything. Taking me to and from dance and gymnastics. Buying groceries, paying the bills. As someone who grew up in a single family household, I think it was a shock, when it first happened.
And so I thought that when that accident happened, she came home that afternoon, the house was dark, walked upstairs, and she was laying in bed and not talking. And I thought, this isn't normal. And every part of my body was like terrified that either she was going to die and I was gonna be left alone or that I wouldn't have any idea what I was doing.
And so I think that the idea of being a caregiver never crossed my mind. I think it was more like I have to do everything I can to take care of her the way she took care of me. Because that's all I know what to do right now. No one, there was no one to give me guidance. She was the one that gave me guidance when I did my homework. Like doing math problems together at the dining table.
And then all of a sudden I was the one in charge. It was definitely, a a shock to the system. I didn't view it as caregiving until I went to therapy and realized how difficult and how traumatic that experience was for me.
Candace Dellacona: And I think it's important for the listeners to understand too, that it wasn't entirely clear in the beginning that your mom was so injured, and so there was less of a sort of blueprint about what the next day would even look like.
Lisa McCarty: Yeah.
Systemic Failures and Isolation
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Candace Dellacona: Do you wanna talk a little bit about how you dealt with the uncertainty of what that looked like and then, how you came to grasp the gravity of her limitations?
Lisa McCarty: Sure. So I think how I dealt with uncertainty was just by doing, because the only thing I think I knew how to do at that moment when came home and found her, and they initially told us that it was a concussion. The doctors told her when she went to the hospital earlier that day. And then I guess she was taken home and then that was, and then it was my responsibility there,
Candace Dellacona: Which is crazy when you think about
Lisa McCarty: Right. Exactly. I have a daughter who is 13. The exact age that I was when it happened, and I often now think that the timing of my sharing my story and also the timing of sort of this realization that significant role reversal, but also change in responsibility. It's one thing to have your kid do the dishes, like she empties the dishwasher and she's very helpful and independent, but to have her learn to pay the bills and to do the meals and to all of a sudden be taking care of me instead of herself while also going to school. I can't imagine that.
Candace Dellacona: And it's like a systemic failure from the jump, right? Because here this woman comes in with an injury. She's told that it's a concussion, that something that we all, a lot of us have sustained and life goes on and you don't have any long-term effects, so they release her.
So there's the fact that as a woman and the healthcare that we receive, she released on her own accord. Without any sort of infrastructure to help her. And then her daughter is expected to step in. Like where were the professionals? I'm sure you shake your fist at the universe that, like how could that have been put upon her? 'Cause she also had a brain injury so
Lisa McCarty: they didn't know that until years later, right? Yeah. So I think it was a systemic failure, twofold not only for me. There was no infrastructure, no system in place that the medical system failed because they didn't say who's taking care of her at home. They just assumed there was a dad living in the house who, you know, and my parents divorced when I was very young. So there wasn't, there was no one else there was no one else living in the house. It was my mom and I there was no educational system that was aware that I was caregiving. No one noticed at school. No teachers noticed. There was no non-official systems. There was no nonprofit stepping in. There was no community. There were no, there was no village. There was no extended family available, nothing. And then there was also, the second part of the failure was the failure to my mom, because not only did they not do their due diligence. Certainly they did the process of what an ER visit is probably like 18 minutes with the doctor or whatever it is now.
And they determined, that she was capable of going home. I guess I, I don't know. I wasn't there. I was at school. But they did assume she would be fine in a few weeks and weeks went by and I was, it was basically taking care of her in the morning, going to school, coming home, and taking care of her again, and that continued on for weeks into months and then became two years and we saw several doctors during that time and no doctor neurologists could figure it out, and many of them thought she was making it up. So unfortunately we look at our current medical system and the way that things are structured, and as a woman who has personally been misdiagnosed and overlooked and gaslit, I would also say that's, that's still an issue. And many years later we did find she became more independent. And two years in, I started to resist and rebel against that role, and I started hanging out with kids that were older than me, and also drinking and abusing drugs and acting out because I was so unhappy with the way that my life had shaped into something that was no longer, I was no longer independent. I was no longer free. It all was about caring for her. And obviously, again, not her fault, but I was very resentful of the situation.
So I would just say that the systemic failures that happen to me, unfortunately are still happening to kids like me. And just for situational awareness for listeners, there are close to 7 million children in adolescents. According to a study in 2020 by AARP, it was actually 5.4 million. But the president of American Association of Caregiving, Connie Siskowski, actually gave an interview about a year ago and she said I actually think it's close to 7 million. So I would agree with her because I know that I've seen so much data around in the UK and in the US about children being negatively impacted by this, and it's something that affects people into adulthood, and it definitely did for me.
I mean, in hindsight, I see the caregiving experience for my mom as both positive and negative. I think certainly I am where I am. I'm still here because of therapy. If I hadn't gone to therapy, I'm not sure that I would've been able to live a healthy, happy, mentally stable life, if you will. I think I struggled for many years with anxiety and depression and isolation and all of these things that are unfortunately very common from kids like me.
But I was able to adapt and learn coping skills that allowed me to be a better caregiver to my dad. And also as we talked about at the beginning of our conversation, to set boundaries more effectively. And as a mom now for the last decade or a little more I am doing a better job as a caregiver in that aspect of knowing when I need space and knowing when I need to put myself first, because as moms we don't do a good job of that at all.
Candace Dellacona: We don't.
Lisa McCarty: I certainly don't, I won't speak for all moms, but I know that it's hard, it's hard to balance and caregiving as well can often lead to burnout and I think we don't talk about that enough.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I think too, you bring a perspective that is not often talked about being a young caregiver, because if you look at the statistics, I think that about 34% of kids are growing up in a single parent household and life happens all the time. So I have a feeling the number of young caregivers is much higher than we would think.
You were one of the silent young caregivers because you didn't know who to tell and nobody thought to ask.
Advice for Young Caregivers
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Candace Dellacona: So when you think about young people who are in your position now, do you think, especially for podcasts like mine and the resources that the young caregivers are being overlooked, and what would you say to them? What would be your advice, going back and something that would've served you well, maybe as a young caregiver?
Lisa McCarty: Yeah. I would say to anyone that's caregiving that is not yet an adult to know that, number one, you're not alone in your experience. Because at the time when I was going through it, I certainly thought that I was the only one. And I thought that I wasn't allowed to talk about my experience because no one else was talking about it. So why would I bring it up? And I also felt as though I was a burden in the situation. Because my mom's care was the priority.
Candace Dellacona: Interesting.
Lisa McCarty: I felt, I felt guilty when I left the house and I wasn't with her, but I also felt guilty even bringing up anything that was on my mind, not only to her because she was barely functioning to much less to a teacher or anyone else.
So I would say to someone who is struggling and you're a young caregiver or a caregiving youth as they're referred to in the US I would say it's really important to talk about your feelings. If you feel like you can't safely talk to someone in your family about it, then find a friend that you trust or talk to a teacher that you feel safe talking to or a counselor, because there's always someone that is willing to listen.
And I think at the time, as I said I didn't think that my feelings mattered that
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Lisa McCarty: I was less of a priority. And I think that really weighed on me for decades until I came to terms with the fact that I actually had a traumatic experience and that it really significantly impacted my life. And if I had talked about it sooner and there was support, mental health support especially, and also respite care, someone coming in and helping with her, if I had talked about it, maybe we would have had help or maybe there would've been someone at least to, to listen to hear how I was feeling, so I wouldn't feel so alone.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I think you're right. I think talking about it in whatever outlet, in whatever way, whatever platform you can, could, can possibly bring some relief and some help. And I think too, when you are a kid, you don't have any orientation of what the universe is and so feeling afraid to bring it up probably because you didn't wanna get your mom in trouble or you didn't wanna be in trouble or have anyone think that you're complaining about the situation because you're sympathy lied with your mom. So all of those things make so much sense when you think about it from the kid's perspective.
Writing the Book and Self Care
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Candace Dellacona: But now that you're at this place, and I hope I can announce that you're writing a book about your experience, which is remarkable.
Lisa McCarty: As mothers, as caregivers, really in any capacity of work we have to learn to, and I do feel like this whole idea of finding a balance is frankly BS because I don't know that there is one. I think you just have to know your limits. I think that's really where it, it becomes like prioritizing your mental health, figuring out how to find, not a balance, but really find limits and set boundaries more firmly in your life and to figure out what that looks like for you. And it looks different for everyone. You might be working on three books or three major projects for work while also raising kids, doing something a major project for someone. And I think for me, I know that writing this book while also parenting and managing a husband who travels every other week it is hard because I am, it's some form of PTSD according to my therapist.
Candace Dellacona: How has it been trying to endeavor this writing process? That's honest and from your perspective and like looking back on what other people's behaviors and their actions were, did you ever get to a point where you thought, I don't know if I can share this about my mom, or
Lisa McCarty: Yeah.
Candace Dellacona: about what happened?
Lisa McCarty: Yes. Yes, definitely. I think as a writer and also as a caregiver we often want to protect the people we're caring for. And also as a daughter, I certainly wanna protect her privacy and also respect where the boundaries are in her situation because it was a traumatic experience for her as much as it was for me.
And I think that, I mean 33 years later, or actually 34 this year she's still living with a brain injury. She's living independently. She lives far away, but she is functioning on her own now, which is, feels like a win for me. Like I, I, I was able to support her the way that she needed when she needed, and I think that feels really rewarding. That's part of caregiving, that's rewarding.
But I would say, with respect to the book it's a balance of emotional honesty and being completely vulnerable of my experience firsthand, but also finding where those limitations are in comfortability, not only with my experience and sharing like certain details. I might be less comfortable sharing, if there's something that I know that she's not comfortable with. So I think it's emotionally honest as humanly possible because it's reported nonfiction and there's a narrative in there and I don't wanna feel as though I'm not being honest with the reader, of course. But at the same time, I think and I'm certainly gonna say this in the book as well that it's portrayed as honestly as I can, but there may be, certain details left out. Out of respect for privacy for my mom.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, which makes sense. And trying to strike the balance as you point out because the whole point in writing the subjects that you choose to tackle is the authenticity. I think that's why your work resonates with so many people, because it's authentic and because we see ourselves in those authentic experiences.
So if you viewed everything through rose color glasses I think you'd alienate the audience that probably share the common experience while at the same time being respectful to your mom and what her experience is. So I'm really excited to read the book. I know that you've probably struck the right balance between the two.
Defining Thriving, Not Surviving
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Candace Dellacona: But what I'll ask you maybe is for those people who are listening now. We talk a lot about surviving the sandwich generation. And your role is what we define the sandwich generation, started at a much sort of younger age, and you've been in it for such a long time. So how do you maybe, or maybe what is your best advice to those listening about what thriving means to you, not just surviving.
Lisa McCarty: Yeah, that's a great question. I guess I, I think just like we set our own limitations and we define our own, ability of what we can do, what is feasible and what works for us, I think we also need to define our own or create our own definition of what thriving looks like for ourselves.
For me, thriving looks like taking time for myself when I can and scheduling it on my calendar, so like I know when it's feasible and when it's not certain times of the day. And I also think from a writing perspective and with respect to this book it's been working on it for, four or five hours and then taking a break for a couple of hours or even a couple of days if I feel like it's, I'm forcing it. And I think if someone wants to either verbally or, through writing or through your podcast, which I love so much to share their story, I think finding that genuine comfortability, like wherever that is. If it is sharing it out loud with someone else, a friend or publicly, do what feels right for you and don't feel forced to talk about it.
And with respect to thriving in general, I think for me I think it means like my kids at the end of the day feel loved and held and safe. And I do think that's also giving myself some of that love too because I, I think I've been hard on myself for many years and to give myself some grace in some moments, that's probably what thriving mostly looks like. And it's also honoring our experiences and the things that we've gone through because they don't always look pretty. And as you said, if you were to write or share in ways that aren't completely clear and transparent, if it doesn't look messy, then someone's probably not being completely honest about that experience.
And I think in caregiving especially, it is messy. It's not a perfect balance. It doesn't look like a beautiful life all the time. While I do believe, and I know many writers and authors have written about the idea that caregiving can be transformational and transformative in an experience, for me, I would say it's been both. It's been messy and difficult and traumatic at some points, but also it has been something that has changed my life. And so I'm choosing to learn from it and turn pain into purpose, if you will.
Closing Remarks
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Candace Dellacona: I love it. That is a great way to end this episode. Lisa, thank you so much for spending so much time with us. We're all looking forward to your book. And when it is released, we will make sure to have you come back on and share all of the information on where our listeners can get it. Really, thank you for always being so open and transparent. I know that you have helped people already and I'm sure you'll help even more with our podcast today.
Lisa McCarty: Thank you so much for having me.
